As political parties, large companies and even football clubs will testify, it is hard to replace an established leader when the person in the top job has had a sustained period of success.
So when Anne Longfield left 4Children earlier this year to become the new children's commissioner for England, the charity was faced with the question of how to replace someone who had been at the organisation for 27 years - 21 of those as chief executive. Rather than turn to someone with a track record in children's services, it appointed Imelda Redmond, who had been working in senior roles in adult services for two decades, the most recent as director of policy and public affairs at Marie Curie Cancer Care.
Three months into the role, Redmond admits much has changed since her time working with disabled children in the 1990s - "even the language is different and we didn't have Ofsted then" - but appears unfazed by the challenge of succeeding Longfield.
"Anne is such a significant personality in the organisation, shaping and influencing it," Redmond says. "She did a great job and raised the profile of the organisation. My plan is to do more of the same. This is my third chief executive role, so I feel quite relaxed about at it."
This assuredness may come from her personal strengths being based on strong leadership skills, rather than anything specific to children's services - she lists "being a good leader", "aligning organisations behind a clear vision" and the "nuts and bolts" of running an organisation as her main attributes.
"I have a real drive around evidence base and rigour - evidence driving our policy is something I feel passionate about," she adds.
"As a chief executive, you pass through an organisation for a period of time and your duty is to leave it better than when you arrived, and to have made a significant difference to the lives of people out there."
It could also transpire that Redmond's experience in the financially "squeezed" arena of adult services could come in useful at 4Children over the next few years.
While Redmond talks of there being "optimism and ambition" across the sector, she admits the "very difficult" state of local government finance is challenging for organisations like hers that provide services, such as children's centres, for councils.
"Having come from adult services, I think that sector has been feeling the squeeze for a lot longer - we're not there in children's services.
"Local authorities will have to make their decisions on where to make savings. We will advocate that they don't make them within children's centres because of the preventative role these play. We are working with them to provide the evidence of where it is best to put resources, but there will be reductions in children's services."
Protecting the frontline
Redmond adds that 4Children has been talking to its local authority clients for some time about how it can continue to provide quality children's centre services for the finances available.
"We're doing that up and down the country - how we cluster groups together and get smarter management so we can keep the overheads reasonable," says Redmond.
"From our perspective, we want to protect the frontline, so we're having those conversations. It is difficult, but we have to be realistic otherwise you can't partner with them."
Despite the understandable concerns over the future of local government funding, the trend towards more outsourcing of children's services provision is an opportunity for organisations such as 4Children. It is also another area where Redmond's adult services experience looks set to come in useful.
"Adult services are almost entirely outsourced now, but children's services are only just beginning," she says. "Some local government leaders are asking us to have that conversation because they haven't had to outsource before."
She recognises the process will be "really tough" for some authorities, but says contracting some services to charities could help them prioritise work with high-risk children.
Redmond says: "You hope they get new ways of doing things and the added value of working with charities. They hope to find cost savings in that. It is about getting that balance right so that it is affordable to organisations to run high-quality services for the right amount of money.
"Most of the local authorities I am speaking to are commissioning services from us now and the ones that aren't are keen to have that conversation because they are doing a big strategic look at how you get best value for money and provide the highest quality care.
"Authorities are going through a really tough time around child protection and child sexual exploitation, so if there are some things they can commission out, it allows them to focus on them."
To that end, 4Children is looking to win work beyond the core range of services it is best known for, namely after-school clubs, children's centres, nurseries and childminder support. It is about to start providing youth services for a local authority, and could develop that side of its work further.
"It is nearer our roots than early years," says Redmond. "We came out of an organisation, initially the After School Alliance and then Kids Club Network, that campaigned over care around school hours, such as after-school and breakfast clubs. It's only in later years that we have become known for early years (work)."
It already provides youth services on all Royal Air Force (RAF) bases, and Redmond recently visited RAF Cosford in Wolverhampton to see this "fascinating" work first hand.
"What was different about it was how they really help prepare children for when their parent goes away and deal with the anxiety," she explains. "For part of the summer, the children stay in a training area of the base where they do exercises, sleep in tents and cook. It gives them a good idea of what it is like for mum or dad when they are away."
Redmond says any moves to focus more on non-early years work would not be a repositioning of 4Children, but more about "going back to our roots in a way".
"We've always had them," says Redmond of the other parts of its work. "We've just not been talking about them.
"We've become slightly skewed to early years as our external face - our pictures are on the whole small children - but that's not who we are. We're much more complex than that - it's about telling the whole story about what we do."
Future strategy
Over the next few months, the charity is to consult widely on its future strategy, although Redmond says expansion is not on the cards at the moment. The process will also give her a chance to "take stock and get to know the sector" and assess where 4Children can "make a significant difference in policy and practice".
Redmond adds: "It might be that we decide the best way we can support families is to provide more after-school clubs, teenage stuff. I need to have a thorough look at the sector and where the gaps are, and where we add value.
"This isn't just an early years organisation - part of my job is to align it into a single organisation that helps families in whatever way they need that support.
"Families have children of different ages and needs to manage. So if you can help them through all those transitions, that has a lot of logic to me."
Improving the alignment of the organisation's work across the age ranges also fits with its vision for how children's centres should be structured. Last year, 4Children published a blueprint for children's centres to be turned into children and family hubs, incorporating a range of universal services for children from birth to 19 alongside better links with social care to improve access to specialist services for those who need them. The model is already being delivered in its centres in Essex and Worcester, and the charity is currently working with another authority to develop a broader community hub model.
It runs around 100 children's centres across England, and Redmond recognises that to maintain this level of provision, a strong case has to be made over the benefits they bring.
"People need to recognise the importance of children's centres, and look at what the outcomes are for children. That's the bit that is missing from the children's debate - there's not quite enough evidence or robust research.
"We can't just go in saying children centres are great, do more children's centres. In this economic climate, we have to say children centres are right for these reasons, and this is the impact it has and where it fits in the overall economy."
IMELDA REDMOND CV
- March 2015 Chief executive 4Children
- 2011-2014 Director of policy and public affairs, Marie Curie Cancer Care
- 2001-2011 Chief executive, Carers UK
- 1998-2001 Deputy chief executive, Carers UK
- 1988-1998 Chief executive, Markfield Community Centre, Haringey - a charity for families with disabled children
- Mid-1980s Play services manager, Hackney Council
- 2010 Awarded a CBE in the Queen's New Year Honours
